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Super Smash Bros. 4 3DS: Improving
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Started by WiiGi
(2014-10-06 17:31:22)
WiiGi (2014-10-06 17:31:22)
Last Updated: February 5
UPDATE: I'm adding little details to this thread here and there, but I won't rush it, I want to be accurate with my information and not make assumptions based on how players use them and actually spend my time in for glory to see their advantages and downfalls. With that, I'm able to calculate and describe their potential specifically.
- Working on the rest of the roster.
- I have been busy lately, but the metagame is being highly grasped and understood, leave it to me to keep you up to date!
- Getting information for every fighter and putting it on my notepad to later put in this Forum. It's no easy task to specifically analyze every character and see how high their potential can be, that's like knowing the entire game!
- Added a tier list of several sites speculation!
- Updated information for characters and finished row 2! Cleared up a few errors and more precise on the information.
- Haven't entirely given up on this, just adding info, a little bit at a time, thanks to those who are patient.

As you all know, I'm claimed to be the best when it came to Brawl when the game came out and I passed the skill into SSB4 as soon as it came out. To me, the game seems to act as Brawl gameplay with the knockback of that of Melee. I want to cover everything that I found out since the release of the game.

The Current Tier List:


Directional Influence (DI) : This is the most important tool used to surviving at high amounts of percents (Around 80%-140%). It's common sense for someone to hold the control stick facing the stage to avoid getting killed, you technically want to be a step before that, before you get attacked, you want to aim your control stick upward to have your character fly to the corners of the screen and then hold the control stick facing your opponent. This will reduce your momentum by around 20%. How can you tell if you've done this correctly? If you see a red lightning pierce through the middle of your character, that means you're about to get KO'd, unless you use this method. DI'ing doesn't just work on high percents, you can use this to get out of combos too such as Neutral A Jab attacks by simply holding up, it gives your character a chance to escape.

Stale: This mechanic was brought back; Sakurai wants people to use a variety of moves and not stick to any single one for the entire match, so he made it where the more you use a move, the less knock-back and damage it has the next times you use it, capped at 10 uses at most per each move until you respawn.

B-Reverse: It has been brought back, if you run in a single direction and jump and immediately press B and instantly turn yourself around, you keep the speed you were running on one direction to face the other. It's not really that impressive, but it gives you more stage control.

Gimping: To KO an opponent at an early % such as making them lose their jump off the stage enough where they can't recover (No, this is not an SD [Self-Destruct]).

Spacing: Keeping your opponent near the ends of the stage to give your opponent a hard time to position themselves more comfortably (Such as constantly grabbing lil mac and throwing off the stage)

Frames: The tool you'll most likely be looking at when playing the game. Frames can be the amount of animation frames that you have to wait and leaves you open for anything after using a move. If you land on the ground, some character have it harder and have a few landing frames, so you can technically use that time to open up for a grab or smash attack.

Punish: This is the common term used as to damage your opponent by a mistake, a habit, or prediction you've made to counteract over what she/he's doing.

Perfect Shield: If you use the shield button and block as soon as you use the shield and you see light emit around it, that's a perfect shield. This is what you want to use when you're thrown a projectile or approach your opponent who's using attacks on you. What are the advantages? If you perfect shield correctly, you can immediately do anything after.

Tech: Pressing the Grab/Shield button before landing on the ground and the choice to move forward or back as a roll. If you get attacked off the stage somehow, you can tech on the stage walls as well to prevent yourself from getting KO'd when you're at 60 or higher percent.

Sour Spot: Using an attack and hitting much weaker than what it's normally supposed to hit for. Attacks that you initiate and prolonged have this effect too. Most sour spots are used for combos.

Sweet Spot: Using the move the way it was meant to, or the tip of attacks hit harder than usual. [EX: Mario, Link and Marth FSsmash.

Tap Jump: In order for you to not get hit by combos, getting strange versatile knockbacks, jumping helps you escape or even getting hit by attacks, tapping the jump button for a short hop is what most pros use to approach or avoid any given situation, it gives you the preparation you need for combat.

SD: Self-destruct, mainly die by accident or un-intentionally.

John: The term used when someone makes an excuse for why they lost. (EX: My 3DS is red. I lost cause my character isn't my favorite color. I didn't have the volume high enough. There was too much lag! [There wasn't any])

Zoning: When you can push your opponent away and make the game in your favor, preferably having more Stage Control. You can break someone Zoning you by seeing a Pattern and turning it against them. When you hold a smash attack, you can bluff that you will hold it entirely and turn it into a different move when that person is getting ready to punish you to turn into a Zone Breaker. Click here if you want to watch about it

How to play more efficient:

Considering this game is new, I've noticed some people have habits of having a certain play-style, based on what previous opponents have done, and repeatedly do it just to have a chance at winning.

- Constantly Dodging right or left until you get close to your opponent to attack is not how you should play, it leaves you open for Smash attacks and Grabs, it doesn't give you much of a reward, you have 1/3 of vulnerable frames during that dodge, sure it's quick, but it's predictable and smart players will do something such as anticipate your next dodge.

- Playing aggressive without a shield is the most reckless thing you can do, especially if you go up to a person when they can so much as to counter attack you. Characters like Bowser, Lucario, Lil Mac do this more often, but you have a shield too, all damage has it's way of getting prevented, use it!

- Playing defensive and using projectiles is another I like to mention. When Brawl came out, the game had all sorts of spams, Pit arrows, Falco Lasers, Pikachu thunder, you name it. The reason it was hard to overcome all that, was simply because there little to no Start-up or Ending lag upon using the move, so there was little risk and high reward to unwary opponents. As for SSB4 though however, this has been changed and it's not as effective because there is a lot more delay and less damage output when you use it more often. If you're going to use projectiles, use it to approach or on any blind spots, catching your opponent off guard to charge up again.

- Of course, if you want to completely dominate your opponent, you need to get rid of options your opponent may have, which is mostly my style of play. You need to limit what your opponent can do, to take damage from you. Predict your opponent, look closely at why they chose certain moves, put yourself in his/her shoes and imagine the scenario they are trying to put themselves into in means of taking damage, KOing, or combo you. Of course, your opponent is 50% of your worries, where does the other 50% come from? Yourself. You need to know your habits and patterns too, make yourself less predictable... of course that doesn't mean running around all over the place and attacking (You know who you are).

- So people have emotions, some people have high spirit where they improve depending on how hard their situation is, which should be all of you! Then there's low spirit, people who give up or stop trying cause they see themselves hopeless (Sadly 75% of 3DSPlaza). I want you guys to improve, it took me no more than a day to become as good as I am now in a game like this, call it talent or fast learner, but you all have the potential to be better. There's nothing more fun than overcoming a hard obstacle; consider it a challenge.

Attack names: (If you don't know the short terms for them, I highly suggest seeing them for less confusion) show

Jab: Pressing A while standing still.

Forward Tilt/Ftilt: Slightly holding right/left and pressing A.

Forward Smash/Fsmash: Pressing Left/Right and pressing A for a smash attack.

Up Smash/USmash: Pressing Up and pressing A for a smash attack.

Down Smash/Dsmash: Pressing Down and pressing A for a smash attack.

Up Air/Uair: Holding up in the air and pressing A.

Back Air/Bair: Holding the opposite direction your character is facing and A.

Forward Air/Fair: Hosting the control stick your character is facing and A.

Down Air/Dair: Holding down in the air and pressing A.

Up throw/Uthrow: Throwing up with a grab.

Forward throw/Fthrow: Throwing gorward with a grab.

Back throw/Bthrow: Throwing back with a grab.

Zair: Using Grapple in the air.


Mario/Dr. Mario: show

- Can combo very easily
- Can get out of combos if you use his Natural Air
- Has a Forward Air that's more consistent and less punishable. More air mobility for Gimps
- Received Buffs and consistency out of Brawl's move-set
- His play-style standardly fits Mario in SSB4
- Has stage control, more seen with double Back air and no almost no landing frames.

- Doesn't have the best recovery
- No way to open up his combo's without a grab (commonly)
- Up close fighter, so he's more than likely trading damage with you
- Not too heavy, so he's always flying all over the place when attacked

Using Mario: If you want to use him, simply know your ins and outs of situations, don't go barging in unless you know you have the upper hand. You always want to open up your combo with a down throw and Uptilt 2-5 times before using an Up air and then depending on your opponents vectoring, a Nair or a Bair. You want to ensure you always close to your opponent, since all of Mario's moves involves ensuring your opponent is being hit by mistakes. His best use of his utility revolves around his Utilt and Upairs, at low % you can chain a few UpTilts, enough where it's been exaggerated (Click here to see why). You want to combo his UpAirs and it strings on most characters at around 40%-80%. At around 100%, you want to KO with your UpSmash, since it's the most viable, mainly because even if it's shielded against, it pushes your opponent away and has near to no ending lag for it to be punished unless it doesn't connect.

Fighting Mario: You always have a split second to attack Mario back. You always want to try and perfect shield his attacks and follow it up with anything that doesn't have too much start-up. Mario will stick to you and throw attacks at you, to give you less room, so you need to get Mario to commit and counter-attack with anything that you have. Mario's that spam B don't know what they're doing, so you should use his strategy on himself. You just need to wait for the right moment and find an opening for you to answer to him, especially if the Mario is jumping around and DAring or throwing random attacks.

Luigi: show


- Can easily pick up combos after a down grab
- Down special can KO at high %
- More consistent on his attacks


- Has a hard time recovering from his nerf
- Up special isn't as reliable for KOs

Using Luigi: He's a much harder character to pick up, because you're mainly going to rely on his combo game. Mainly Down throw, Up tilt twice, and Fair, another way is Luigi's prolonged Nair, Down throw/Utilt, and shield after, expecting your opponent to attack and then grab after his/her air attack. You can use him off-stage for Down special tornados, just to throw them off for a Gimp, his Dair can spike, just be careful to not go too deep. He's a character that you need to stick to your opponent a lot of the time. Use his grabs, it's the source of his potential. Luigi racks up damage from 0% to as high as 70%, but don't feel discouraged, the hardest part for Luigi is landing a KO move, so try and survive as much as you can and avoid any of his grabs by being out of his range.

Fighting Luigi: Technically, if you get caught in his combos, one thing you want to do is probably... get out of his combos? Jumping out is a good way, but dodging will give you landing frames, attacking during his combos works, if the Luigi player is expecting it, he will shield and repeat, if not, you will also take damage from another utilt as you try and attack back as well, you can use vectoring to make it harder for the Luigi to not combo you, but it won't help much, you need to space him out and get him to slowly take damage from you and not rely on that one tactic to get any damage on you. Luigi has a hard time getting close to enemies, so you want to do the opposite, since he's very slippery. Keep him away, no matter what, if your opponent plays him well, he can always get a combo off you and read you like a book.

Peach: show


- Has a lot of kill potential, unlike before
- Can use Dair as before as you hold the jump button and press down
- A good down grab for her to follow up with a Bair


- Received some nerfs in her best moves
- Not much combo potential, just follow ups

Using Peach: She has 2 play-styles that she can adjust to, the defensive turnip one where she can continuously Fair or use Dair every so often at low % since it can't be punished much except by Air or UTilt and Usmash attacks. You want to be weird with Peach and use around every one of her moves whenever you see an opening, catching your opponent off guard is a high reward with little to no risk with her. She has moves where she can always combo at least twice, such as Dtilt into Fair, Dgrab into Bair, Turnip into Fair, etc. Peach has the best moves to answer to anything your opponent will do to try and get onto the stage.

Fighting Peach: As long as you're able to use air attacks on her, you have no trouble dealing damage. She relies on seeing you let your guard down, and can't do much otherwise. If you play aggressive on her, she can't counter it much, other than shielding and grabbing/attacking you back. She has a lot of ending lag in her moves, so a good peach will always commit when you least expect it and the chance is given. Put some pressure into her and just don't get caught in range of her combos.

Bowser: show

- Has heavy punish attacks
- Beyond average damage output
- Early kill moves

- Not too much stage control
- Most moves can be punished
- Landing Frames

Using Bowser: If for some reason, you want to use bowser, then go ahead, he's not exactly bad anymore and is the most improved character enough to be an extremely high tier. You simply need to learn the mechanics of the game before using him though since he relies on how your opponent plays to get any of his moves perfectly in for his favor. You have the chance to KO at 80% with an Fsmash, so don't lose the opportunity, make sure you don't stale it at early %, it can be useful for an early KO later. If you're at a stock ahead, feel free to get a Bowercide, which requires you Dieing with your opponent when you use your forward special; Which the person with the lower % chooses which way he moves during his forward special. His Down special is really good when you use it near the ledge, as a ledge guard move, as he will grab the ledge during his ground pound, even if not facing the correct way; meaning your opponent needs to dodge roll to not get hurt by it's range, it's enough to KO and it's safe. His Back Air is one of his best moves, so always use it for any reason. His Grounded up special is good for picking up mistakes and it's somewhat punishable.

Fighting Bowser: It's going to be extremely difficult for you, any one mistake you do can be your stock. You can easily dominate the match if you know your combos well and not let Bowser land, keeping him in the air more than half the time is his biggest weakness as long as you stay below him. He's a big character so that means you can get your attacks to chain more easily, so don't lose the opportunity to poke him around a bit, since Bowser needs to come at you sooner or later.

Yoshi show


- Received pure buffs and plays better here, more than ever
- More attacks chain together
- Easier to KO with him


- Eggs don't go as far, gets pushed down more by SSB4s gravity
- Gimp'd easily if you footstool
- Doesn't have much moves to open up with but Bair

Using Yoshi: Use him as unpredictable as you can, he works as a hit and runner. He has Air game, Ground game and Off stage game as well, so he has little to no downfalls (Especially since he can jump out of shield now). He's a more balanced character, good, but not the best. Make sure you commit to moves that are safest to Yoshi, you don't want to take more damage than you are dealing. He's a lot more tankier too, so he can survive at high damage if you vector correctly. Egg spacing, and B reversing is what you do a lot of the time. Most Yoshi players just press buttons, any actually, in desperation of taking damage, but he can Dtilt into a dash attack, he can down throw into UAir, Up Special hit stun into a dash attack/Grab, Jab attack + Up special. If you're going to use his Down special, it should ONLY be used on the ground, after your opponent attacks as a KO move when they're at high %. There's a hitbox in the down special where it puts them in the vulnerable sweet spot of his down special. Yoshi wins a lot of matchups, so just think of yoshi in this sense: What should I do to constantly take damage off my opponent and not get hit in return?

Fighting Yoshi: You need to approach Yoshi carefully, he doesn't have much but Jab attacks for ground game when it comes to fast attacks. Yoshi relies on air attacks but doesn't have much to open up with. You can get some nice damage off if you're keeping them off stage, maybe even an early KO as he doesn't have much but a small glide with his egg toss with a small vertical hop.

Rosalina: show


- Is uniquely different and can deal damage along with Luma
- Can space your opponent out
- Can cancel out any projectile game your opponent has
- Has great off-stage game with no risk


- Has trouble KOing
- Needs Luma in several occasions
- Not much combos
- Tall enough to get hit by short jump Fair/Bair

Using Rosalina: You want to start off by throwing Luma somewhere in your stage, you need to know it's whereabouts to have stage control. You want to distance yourself in between you and Luma to make it seem like they need to get through Luma to get to you. Obviously your opponent may want to jump over, so you have no reason to do the same to keep them off. It's hard to overcome strategies like this because your opponent is losing their opportunity to get their potential out while retaining yours. You can call back Luma and use star bits too, anything is fine as long as you don't get hurt in the process. RosaLuma has the best air game than the whole roster and can potentially kill with any (mostly UpAir and DAir as low as 40% if they're close to the KO Zone. You always want to stick to Luma, since he deals damage as well. At low %s, you can use Rosalinas Upthrow to combo into UpTilt, then you can follow up with UpAirs. Don't approach your opponent, make them come to you, you have the upper hand since you have Luma, make it really difficult for your opponent to hit you, Jab attack every so often to get your opponent off your face.

Against Rosalina: Combo Rosalina, it's not too hard if they don't know how to properly use Luma. You anticipate her moves before letting yours out, since she needs the space to defend herself and keep you off of her. Don't attack Luma... focus your attacks on Rosalina. Despite her being a dual character, she doesn't take much damage if she's not with Luma at all, and doesn't deal much damage with Luma hitting you either. As a self-defense, Rosalinas try to distant yourself from her, and will smash attack if you come near.

Bowser Jr. show


- Multi-hitting moves or basic one hits to get damage and your opponent away
- Racks up damage easily
- KO potential when using his hammer out of his Up Special


- Doesn't have much to deal with projectiles
- Can be extremely difficult to KO, depending on the characters weight
- Smash moves have Start-Up and Ending lag evenly

Using Bowser Jr.: You want to approach your enemy by using his forward special into any air attack most commonly, you can cancel out of it if you need to. His Bair and Fair both work similar, so either one of them accommodates each other evenly, use it mainly to keep your opponent at a distance where all his attacks latch out. His B move is okay when 1/3 of the stage to have the bowling ball drop down off stage or spiking with Dair is an option and/or drop your Koopa clown car. His down special is okay to use when you're not in point blank range, don't use it when you're vertical from your opponent, it's never useful to use moves that not even you will fall for. He can combo with a dash attack, Utilt and then a Fair at early percentages. His forward special connects with his Aerial moves, so you can use that as a combo if it hits.

Against Bowser Jr.: Shield his attacks and then attack correspondingly, anticipate that he will come at you because he will eventually. He has the air game to get out of situations, so long as you space him out. Trying to combo him will get you attacked in return half the time, if that does happen, then wait til he uses his attack to give you the opening and repeat. Anything Bowser Jr. Can't deal with, he will jump over.

Wario: show


- Move-set and play-style relative to that of Brawl
- Quicker executions
- Down special now KO's with the Big waft

- Some small nerfs and ending lag on moves
- Uair/Dair isn't as effective

Using Wario: You want to approach your opponent with air attacks, since that's his potential right there. His Nair is good to get your opponent to shield and wonder which way you'll land or more effectively using his B move on shielded opponents. Use the bike after you attack as a follow up, naturally using the bike is too obvious, but may catch some off guard. You can consider Wario's waft as an early KO move depending on the time you use it, if it's before the final one, you can KO insanely low as to 50% if you land it correctly. A Wario Waft builds it's charge fully for 1 minute and 50 seconds through-out the match, whether you're KO'd or not.

Against Wario: He's a bit tricky to play against, if you stick to the ground because you have more range would be your best option. Wario doesn't have much downfalls, just anticipate his attacks since it's all he can open up with. Not much combo potential only sour spot Fairs.

Game and Watch show


- Move-set and play-style relative to that of Brawl
- Knock-back and stun in SSB4 fits Game and Watch better
- More secured consistency in his attacks


- Gets KO'd fairly easy
- Not much KO potential without it being high risk
- Nerf'd in moves

Using Game and Watch: He's not much to look at, but he's not that bad, you just need to know when to attack and when not to. His forward special is too risky and the chances of getting 9 was lessened. You can always start your combo with a down grab at least. DTilting, Bair, Fair or grabbing is one of the main uses of Game and Watch for approaching. His DownThrow combos into his Utilt, so you can use this before 40% on most characters. Just try and not get too greedy and spam his hammer Like this guy, luck favors him... sometimes.

Against Game and Watch: He has delay after his attacks, his Bair multi-hits, so it's better to wait til he lands after for a punish. Start-up isn't a problem when he initiates, it's mostly the time it takes for his animation frames to finish after a move. He plays around the same as Brawl and since he was nerf'd in his best areas, you won't be seeing him used often, he has potential, just not a lot of it.

Donkey Kong show


- Deals lots of damage if predicted opponent
- Early KOs
- Has double back air!
- Lol. Down special on Lil Mac


- Unable to KO with grabs
- Start-Up and even more ending lag
- Hard to follow up combos if your opponent vectors correctly

Using Donkey Kong: He got nothing but buffs this game, he hits more accurately now it's not all flanky and weird. He can use Utilt in anything, down special into anything, and back air twice to keep your opponent on one side of the stage, he's amazing in this game if used properly. His up special is more horizontal as well, not that a heavy would need more vertical distance. First off, he can down throw and you would have to read how your opponent will react to that, anywhere below 75%. You always want to charge your punch, a full one will KO light characters at 70% and heavies at 100%. His Forward air can meteor smash at 20% if sweet spotted.

Against Donkey Kong: Not a character you want to trade damage with, because he will obviously win since he's much heavier and harder to KO. If you want to approach him, it's anywhere around after he attacks and catch him quickly in between, usually using quick tilts to raise his % up for free, as he does need to approach you with hard hitting combos, you just need a really good reaction timing to his moves. Don't be reckless against him unless you know you have the upper hand.

Diddy Kong show


- Up special is useful to recover and approach a distant foe
- Limits your opponent
- Combos with little effort
- DownThrow into Upair


- His Banana was nerf'd for single use(In a way, it's a Pro, so your opponent doesn't use it against you)
- Is really light
- Doesn't have much KO potential

Using Diddy: Diddy is by no means the worst character at all. You can use him EXACTLY the same way as you would in Brawl, without much banana control. He has little to no ending lag in most of his moves and no noticeable landing frames after an attack, so he continue using his attacks like he's meant to. His Down grab is his main use, choose between kicking or clinging on his forward special depends if your opponent is holding a shield. You use his air attacks majority of the time, and if your opponent is far from you, his up special even for a single charge will take you across the entire stage fast as a Lucario would. You just need to keep on DownThrowing into UpAir and you got a solid Diddy, seeing as his damage is out-scaling even most characters such as Shiek and Zero Suit Samus. Do mix ups with his forward special as well.

Against Diddy: Diddy's play very aggressive, so just attack him before he does, if you have the range (such as a sword). You mainly want to stick to the air, because his banana will make you an easy target for slipping. He's hard to punish and will be jumping all over the place, but you just need to expect him to attack you, based on his patterns and movements. Trading damage is fine, since he will be likely to be KO'd first. He will have a hard time KOing you, which is any of his smash attacks at high %, if you keep yourself spaced at a distance. The only thing you want to avoid is being grabbed... and especially being UpAir'd, since that's the way he deals with most situations with any character.

Link show


- Buffed recover and dash attack
- Is even in most match-ups
- Is much heavier and survives for a long time unless Gimp'd


- Doesn't have much options to attack while in the air
- If link's holding the ledge and gets the ledge taken away, he's an easy target for a Bair
- Get's beat around in short string of combos if your opponent is patient
- Has a hard time with floaty characters

Using Link: He's able to connect all his Upsmash hits now, as for Forward smash, if the tip hits, it's a 1 hit smash attack, if they're up close, you can use the smash attack twice. Now, for using him, you technically want to start with your boomerang as soon as the match says "GO!", that way you can get a free hit in because people charge into fights. You should always be using Boomerang, arrows and bombs in that order. If your opponent approaches you, feel free to use his grapple. You need to take as much damage as possible with your projectiles and up close you have options, if your opponent decides to be near you in the air, Uptilt, if it's in front of you, you can Jab, FAir, Bair, or Dtilt. If you shield their attack, you can use grapple or Ftilt and use boomerang after. Link has a fair advantage of many characters if he's really solid and sticks to the ground, if you fight duck hunt dog, you need to avoid the ground however, his flying disk out-prioritizes the Gale boomerang, knocking it away, while it eats and arrows shot. Also remember that as long as you don't run with Link, you're able to use his shield for projectiles (Such as another links Boomerang and fully charged arrow).
You can also space using Links Zair and can drop bombs along with it too, to plant a small minefield as you give yourself space and it explodes if your opponent is close.
Link has a jab infinite lock, this guy discovered it and used it on Apex against Pros, so use it whenever you get the chance: Click here to see.

Fighting Link: You need to watch out for his projectiles and perfect shield any or jump out of range of any, of course the gale boomerang can be angled up, so be prepared for anything. Don't recklessly approach him unless you need to. Be sure to grab him often and combo with attacks, since approaching him is difficult if he's good. You need to bait out his attacks and that gives you an idea of what he expects you to do so predict your opponent. If a Link Utilts once, he's obviously going to do it once more til it hits you. Every Link player plays differently, but if it's a straight-forward attacking play-style, then you have the advantage from all his start-up and Ending lag attacks, as long as you hold shield. The hardest thing a Link can do is try and KO you if you're jumping all over the place.

Zelda show


- Her attacks are more accurate
- Is idealistic for mind-games
- Balanced character for slow match-up characters


- Bair and Fair nerf'd, KO's at higher %
- Not much close combat options
- Is too slow to rack up easy damage

Using Zelda: It's really hard for her to go in on opponents, but who says she has to? (Unless you're being counter-spammed.) You would need to use her forward special whenever your opponent is at a distance and get them to approach, she has a series of smash attacks she can use to get her opponent away from her, she's not really a character you go aggressive with, leave that job to someone like Bowser Jr. She doesn't have a specific play-style, which is why not much people use her and prefer using someone else, but it'd be unique to see a good Zelda, who actually knows how to space herself from her opponent. Don't be reckless with her either, use her Fair/Bair around 100%, it should be enough to KO, landing it is another story.

Against Zelda: Approach her and don't be afraid, any Zelda will constantly forward special and teleport away when near or counter attack, depending on the scenario. She doesn't have much options if you're constantly attacking her on the ground and air, she has a bunch of blind spots. Watch out for any of her grabs and don't be in range of any of her attacks, the key to beating her is through patience, and then go violent during any opening.

Shiek show


- Fast, safe, and easy to combo with
- Has little to no counters
- Every one of his moves are viable options


- Has trouble KOing
- Is too fragile to smash attacks
- Involves more effort to deal damage

Playing Shielk: You always want to approach your opponent by grabbing, it's how he gets all his best attacks in and easily take easy % off your opponent, and rarely does your opponent get away from shiek's hits. Space your opponent off the stage with his Fair and Bairs, you can land with a Bair too, his sour spot on it isn't too punishable and has some range. You want to save his Usmash and Dsmash for high %s, and not stale them, otherwise you won't have a KO move and have to normally KO, as for Fsmash, you can use that to rack damage; It won't work for light characters, and you mostly don't get the 2nd part of the kick off because they get hit-stunned back too much for the 2nd kick to connect but will work great for heavy characters on punishes, such as using it near the ledge. Ftilt works well along with Utilt. You mainly want to space your opponent and Zone them away using your Fairs, this is considerably one of Shieks best moves since it combos, even with itself.

Against Shiek: Every time he approaches you, you need to either spot dodge or grab him, since he will do that first start of the match. You will have a seemingly higher advantage, sure he will take easy damage off the start of the game, but what she really needs to worry about is KOing you, which you can take advantage of if you avoid all her options to take that stock off. Make sure you last long with your stocks against her, otherwise you're going to be losing the entire time after taking a stock off you. You can shield the entire time, and she will most likely resort to grabbing you and try to get a Uair, try to vector out of it away from her, her Fair doesn't have much KO potential at lower %, her Uair is much more of a problem. If you see a Shiek camp you and use needles and nades, then she is likely waiting on you to approach her, which will be a pain, be sure to shield if approaching her and bait her into using the needles. She is likely using this tactic to bait you into a grab, once you let your guard down, so in any way possible, just try to out-survive her. Her Down special can be used at any of her given opportunities, it has enough horizontal distance to hit you from afar and you can punish it heavily. Her Up special works better in her favor this game, so just be a step ahead of her.

Ganondorf show


- Hits heavy for early KOs with the games implementation of surviving
- Has a reverse warlock super armor
- Has heavy ground punishing game and ledge control


- Can't Dair repeatedly as he could in Brawl
- Very sluggish movements, no noticeable nerfs or buffs
- Is a predictive character, involves effort to KO opponents

Playing Ganondorf: He's not the best character, but enough to hold it's own, in able for your opponent to get hit, means you have to anticipate their attacks and strike first, since there is a lot of frames before he starts-up attacks. His best move is mainly his flame choke (forward special), and you have to use this to predict your opponents; You can find out if your opponent is reckless and aggressive if they constantly get up attack (That's if you don't want to down tilt along after) to punish. There's no true way of using Ganon, other than approach your opponent and constantly shield to get into situations, his down special is punishable, so it should only be used near the middle of the stage (If you down special on the ledge of the stage, the animation to the ending of his down special animation will completely finish) or to approach after a flame choke, never out of random unless it tends to work more than half the time. Sakurai uses Ganondorf as his main and felt as if he didn't need any buffs, and wanted to see how well he can use him against players in the new SSB4 title, so anything you learned in Brawl with him, passed over here, if SSB4 is your new title, you have a better chance picking up another character.

Against Ganondorf: The hardest thing for Ganon to do is approach a character with any projectiles or good spacing. It should be in your favor a lot of the time, unless you're getting predicted really hard. If you can't outsmart your opponent, then s/he will win the matchup, simply because Ganon is more heavy and hits harder than you. Ganon really dislikes combo potential, swift characters.

Toon Link show


- All of his Brawl moves were brought over, same damage output and knockback
- Is the perfect character to time people out and win with less %
- Can use projectiles to angle themselves into hitting your opponent and frame trapping into combos


- Can't double Bair
- Needed a buff in damage at the very least
- Has a hard time guaranteeing KO's

Playing Toon Link: Try to use your Boomerang a lot, then your Arrow, then drop bombs over them or at them as you approach, don't try and make this a habit and try mixing it up, punish your opponent correspondingly through frame data. You can grab, but don't get used to it, only if they're shielding against something, since the grab doesn't chain into any attack. Don't use Toon Links Up special unless your opponent is dropping on top right/left next of you, enough to avoid an attack and catch them on the landing frames. Annoy your opponent by getting them to approach you, just to be slippery, it's really hard to KO a Toon Link, not much moves they can use.

Against Toon Link: Be really aggressive when you fight him, don't out-spam him unless your duck hunt dog cause he will win when he's more floaty than you are. Just be patient and always use your shield, it's your counter to anything he does for damage. Some Toon Links don't play defensive so if they're aggressive, it's a free win because they're not using him right.

Little Mac show


- Hits hard
- 25%+ Guaranteed KO with the KO punch
- Quick and small to avoid most attacks
- Has a Wall Jump


- With a joke, why did Little Mac die at the hospital? He couldn't recover. Bad Up Special and Forward special
- Has TERRIBLE air game and gets abused in the air
- Relies on 5 attacks on ground
- Picked on with grabs for having a bad grab range

Using Little Mac: Stay near the stage, NEVER dash attack to your opponent unless they were hit and only when you know you can secure it. Don't be reckless, be Smart and Patient. Don't commit too hard, Run and dodge away until you get your opponent to flinch and then you can go in. Stay away from the stage, punch your enemy away from it, or you can put yourself at a distance and punch them away with your upsmash, it has a lot of shield knockback to keep you say. Try to not get grabbed, that's his worse nightmare. You want to use smash attacks around the 50% range, Ftilts work too. At low %, you can chain any Dtilt with an Usmash/Fsmash.

Against Little Mac: Some little macs will wait for you to come to them, in that case, spam from afar until they get really annoyed, as soon as they dash, hold your shield, 90% of the time a lil mac will dash attack, position yourself not at the end of the stage, to give you the space to grab if he goes either side of you, you will have 2/10s of a second to react to the dash attack (as of most of his attacks except Up smash and Forward special), which should be fairly punished by a Ftilt/Dtilt. Feel free to use projectiles against him to get him to come to you, as long as you don't take anymore than 25% on a light weight and 33% with a heavy weight character, cause that's the % of a KO punch. If you don't like Gimping characters off the stage, simply chip damage with your down throw; there are times where Lil mac will try and grab you as he is vulnerable with your shield, yet his grabs have less grab frames and has an instant lock, which means you need to be more precise than landing a KO punch, and even then, he has no moves to connect with any of his throws. After KOing him, feel free to double jump in the air and land anywhere in the stage, by the time, he will lose his invincibility frames. Dodging the KO punch is easy, you basically have to be very slippery, dodgy and especially unpredictable, if anything try to take the meter off of him if you have the utility too, a lot of the time, Lil macs will try and be reckless like a little kid through an adrenaline rush and try to land it on you, so this is the time to get free hits in; at this time, don't hold your shield, since the KO punch pierces through the shield. When you want to Gimp Lil mac at a low %, this doesn't necessarily mean you need to "Spike" or "Meteor smash" him because that's a bit exaggerated, simply pushing him off the stage with a single attack is enough after he loses his double jump. Of course, off stage, a Lil mac has 4 options:
1. He will double jump and instantly dodge.
2. He will Dodge, and recover with an up special (Note, if he's really far/low, he can Double Jump + Wall Jump + Up special).
3. Do a forward special, without any brain process at all.
4. If your opponent has no brain process at all, and uses any of his air attacks, you will be winning the trade and still knocking off the stage (Your attacks will connect with him, if he somehow lands a Fair/Nair on you).

Of course, I want to point out that you can simply space him out when he's on the ledge, being patient during the Spacing and leaving a few frames for you to open up to any of his options is completely from how well your reactions are.
1.A get-up attack is the most common option, which barely has any range, stay slightly away from the ledge, as there aren't many hit-boxes.
2. Simply pressing the shield button to dodge roll away: It isn't the best, but it gets some people, a down smash would work just by seeing it, since he's vulnerable the other half of the roll.
3. If those 3 don't work, he will resort to attack with his usual moves, this can either go into an instant forward special or landing on the stage and landing his Tilt/Fsmash. It's a common human natural response habit for someone go all aggressive when there are no options left, so it's best to distance yourself and try and perfect shield them.
4.His jump option is his last option, double jumping over you and constantly dodging to get far enough ground: Just follow below him til he lands, once he lands, he will have landing animation frames.

When Lil mac gets punished a lot through attacks, their mindset will be on the fact that they can get a counter off you, so mix it into grabs and don't commit to attacks and have a bit of restraint. Obvious enough, any Down throw is fairly common to chain any attack; But of course you want to predict whether the lil mac will:
1. Buffer spam Dodge
2. Jump away
3. Counter

Samus show


- Can escape combos somewhat easier from her Floatiness
- More damage and better knockback then previous games
- Has a lot of stage control if used right


- Somewhat slow, but not that much in between her attaccks
- No viable KO move, other than catching your opponent off-guard for a Charged beam shot
- Has trouble with combo setups

Using Samus: Her grab is mostly her hit, since she can open to ideas based on your opponents reaction. Don't spam with her... that's not how you use her, unless your opponent is off-stage, but you can be giving up a Gimp rather than taking around 10%. Her morph balls off stage are nice, if you catch your opponent during a jump, they can fall to their death. Her Fair is the best approaching move and used to properly get up from the ledge with little response to it. Her Dtilt is good for Combo starts or KOing. Most people use Missle into Fully charged beam since this actually brings the shield close enough to be broken, it also pressures your opponent and is a lot faster to be predicted and even react to. She can string her UpAirs too, so you can use this viably without much worry but a strong single hit DAir from your opponent. Her Uptilt or Jab attacks are her main answers for someone who's up close to you.

Against Samus: Don't be reckless, this is how she gets her damage, bits of pieces here and there til you're already at kill percentage, if it helps, you can be in the air when approaching her, but she'll mostly shield and expect to you attack her, in which case, you don't attack, land away or behind her, don't be predictable. The best thing you can do here is to try and perfect shield anything she throws at you, or even just simply shielding, no damage at all is better than taking any.

Zero Suit Samus show


- Has a lot of combo potential
- Best grab in the game
- Upgraded: Laser, Zair, UpSpecial, Dair, FSmash


- Is really precise when it comes to her kicks
- Has trouble KOing some opponents
- Deals small portions of damage
- Downgraded: Forward special, Down Smash, Dash attack, Down Special

Using Zero Suit Samus: She's okay for a character, I initially couldn't pick her up, despite using her in Brawl, she seemed underpowered from what I was commonly used to, so I stopped using her entirely. This may not be the case with other players though, her grapple is amazing and even if your opponent will dodge it, if it's still in range length, it'll still pull your opponent during the animation. You can use DownThrow into Fair a lot of the time, B-reverse, Bair, Fair spacing, she's really good at keeping your opponent from dealing any damage to you. Her only problem is KOing, which is mainly her Down special, Up special, Fsmash, Bair and Fair, everything else seems harder to land to be any viable to rely on. A smart Zero Suit will grab you if you try to shield against her attacks, and if they don't shield at all, this favors you completely.

Fighting Zero Suit Samus: Just don't get hit, every bit of % matters and you want to avoid having that stack up by little things you could have avoided easily. Every time she fully commits to approaching, use that against her, don't throw random attacks yourself, if she doesn't. Play it smart and smooth, memorize animation frames and you'll be able to tell when she has an opening. Most high competitive skill level players benefit using her, since she has the kit to most situations. KOing her might be difficult, but if you get it early, you'll be sure to have a nice lead ahead of you.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2015-02-05 07:27:27

Bean (2014-10-06 17:47:41)
I'll consider stickying this.
DrakeJericho (2014-10-06 19:09:09)
Sticky granted +1
carlos11 (2014-10-06 22:43:08)
Drake stickies everything.

Nice thread. I appreciate that you are willing to help those who are less skilled.
Language is a tool for efficient communication. The internet is a tool for fast communication. Do not defy both intents by posting incoherent writing.
(M) (2014-10-07 15:36:58)
Thanks alot. o-o

Mephistopheles (2014-10-07 20:53:02)
You are a saint.
carlos11 (2014-10-07 23:56:51)
I wanna be the very best, that no one ever was.
Language is a tool for efficient communication. The internet is a tool for fast communication. Do not defy both intents by posting incoherent writing.
Bean (2014-10-08 19:51:15)
To KO them is my real test.
To win is my cause!
WiiGi (2014-10-09 00:30:29)
I will beat them all across the land
Wi-Fi searching far and wide.
(TLE)SmashBros (2014-10-09 22:46:39)
You're the one who made me spectacular.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2014-10-09 22:47:07

Jearbear (2014-10-12 06:18:32)
I need one of these for greninja I swear Im missing something. I have a really hard time approaching with him.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2014-10-12 06:19:23

LilSaint (2014-10-13 08:35:55)
Chadwick,WiiGi&Jear 1v1 me in smash. Pm me your fc
1v1 me if you got KI:U,Injustice Gods among us(ps3),or SSBB

Also if you're looking for a new friend or someone to talk to,just pm me,anybody&everybody is welcomed to
LilSaint (2014-10-17 04:47:17)
My bad 0001-4604-6887
1v1 me if you got KI:U,Injustice Gods among us(ps3),or SSBB

Also if you're looking for a new friend or someone to talk to,just pm me,anybody&everybody is welcomed to
Deedslaker7 (2014-10-19 20:42:00)
Anyone who can help me not suck as badly should add me. 4253-3785-9516. I've had over 900 1v1s and i'm still not feelin it
I am the leader of the Kid icarus Uprising clan Angels of Sorrow. PM me if you want to join. Our chat on Facebook is as active as it's ever been. We play a multitude of games.
Luigi4thewin (2014-10-24 21:35:41)
Might want to include being able to cancel air dodge lag frames with a air attack 20 frames before hitting the ground.
 >  >>

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